In my experience, the hottest females are not necessarily those who fit a set of measurements, but those whose verve, femininity and snap is manifest, and those qualities don't fade as quickly with age.
It is hard enough to type with paws, but this stupid autocorrect is really messing things up.
I wonder if this movie would be just as exciting if Antonio banderas was the doing all the “drink milk and I’ll call you baby girl” stuff. I think the excitement comes from the man being a young puppy kind of guy. Not at risk of actually dominating. Just playing at it. And so it seems interesting to me that Antonio plays the bored(boring?) husband.
So I would certainly find it less hot, but that is me. I think if a man has actual power of you and you have to be genuinely worried about your welfare, that is no longer hot but concerning. You want your primal proclivities tickled just enough but not to the point that your survival instinct kicks in.
Good + Powerful is rare I guess, but that's what really turns me on. Antonio Banderas played a good powerful in Zorro but maybe thats not sexy to women anymore.
Interesting take. Now we will definitely go see the movie. Might be a topic we want to explore on our podcast. We love stories that show women in all their nuance and complexity. We shouldn't have to be saints to have our stories told and our experiences and desires valued.
We will be seeing a lot more of those in my opinion because the generations of women growing older now are no longer satisfied with being put out to pasture
I was very skeptical of this film after The Idea of You and A Family Affair came out last year, but you're right in pointing out that more female directors working in the industry mean that we get to see stories that up until now seemed reserved exclusively to men. We've had decades of witnessing older men seduce incredibly young and attractive women and when the roles are reversed we still flinch a bit, as if that possibility were totally unconceivable, be it because we can't get our head around a younger man truly wanting an older woman, be it because we have been conditioned to believe desire and sex are the realm of the young (or the men). Women of all ages have always had desires of their own, but they've never been given many outlets to express them and represent them without judgement. While I agree with other comments about how a woman of that status of Nicole Kidman in this film probably wouldn't be so keen on such a young man -which is different from not being interested at all in a younger man-, after watching the trailer of the film yesterday at the cinema and reading your thoughts here, I'm definitely very intrigued to see this movie when it's out in the UK. Besides, a bit of healthy female sexual vindication on screen never hurt anyone.
I have not watched family affair but I liked the idea of you for delivering on what it is advertised as: a light-hearted entertainment romance like the Lindsay Lohan ones I used to inhale as a teenager. They don't all have to be deep and meaningful, I am just happy sometimes to get movies that reflect the whole of human desire and experience and not just the same tropes. I thought Babygirl was a good movie overall too, not just the story. I loved the acting and casting, and the cinematography was breathtaking.
I agree with him being an affective dominant in the way he tailors that experience FOR her, specially. Most men in BDSM are absolute SHIT at service-topping in this way because they are in it for their dicks. Lol. This guy tops like a lesbian, probably because he was written by a woman. 99% of your power comes from understanding the person submitting to you in a deep way. It’s a mindfuck FIRST. He’s listening and watching, the hot part about being him is giving her that experience, the power of it.
yeap, exactly, if you are just playacting being dominant without being fully present for the other person's needs then the other person can't truly submit, they can't turn off until you hit that button.
Holy God I love you so much. Every sentence here...chef's kiss. I would not have watched this before bc romancey type movies/erotic thrillers are not really my jam, but now I'm definitely watching it just because I love your voice here so much.
Please please become a man-eating 40-something boss bitch one day, just so I can read about it and cheer for you.
(But just one tiny itty bit nit/edit...you wrote about the Time cover article said less likely to be "blown off by a terrorist". That means getting ghosted by a terrorist in English, you mean "blown up").
LOL, inshallah Kate (corrections always appreciated, thanks). It's not the best film of the year, but I am just enjoying older women, younger men romances lately. I also liked watching 'The Idea of You', though obviously it is a very light movie. I miss watching rom comms as a teenager, with Lindsay Lohan and the likes, just for the cute/sexy plot line.
Babygirl was fascinating. I don't relate to the kinkiness, but then I am not a very masculine (straight) guy. I'd like to hear from other readers: Is something like the power dynamic in the movie present in many/most male-female relationships?
I personally don't think that there is because that dynamic is quite specific and difficult to maintain. Most couples have the dynamic of friends- anything else would not be sustainable as life is not a multi-decades long kink game.
I'm forty years in to my relationship/marriage (we are both 62). We've developed spheres of differentiated power. It's sort of like the law of comparative advantage in economics.
A woman in power would never go for a guy like this, she would laugh at him and he would have ED for the rest of his life from the humiliation. Maybe if he looked like Harris and was charming and submissive he would have a better chance, but it’s hard to imagine this woman would fuck around on that husband for this kid. It’s hard to suspend disbelief.
Because women in power don’t respect young, cocky men at work who think they have more power, especially because they had to fight men all the way to the top. The scenario just wouldn’t play out at all in a workplace. Not with a woman at her level. I could see it happening if he was not a coworker and not in the workplace at all.
It depends, I don’t think he was being just cocky, he was being sweet in my opinion. I think confidence is hot and if a woman is secure enough in her own power she won’t mind youthful brassiness - at least, I find I don’t the older I get. I find the boys I used to find triggering when I was a teenager for the threat they posed to my own value to be endearingly silly now I am older, and a reflection of their own budding self-image crisis.
You see them from a motherly lens, then, which is still not seeing them as “sexy” but “cute” little boy. An older woman wouldn’t be dominated by a junior she thinks is cute/silly/endearing. Plus a woman who feels motherly would be unlikely to be a ceo to begin with, tbh.
Try reversing the sexes: a over 40's male CEO dating a twenty something female intern and you will see the wrath of what has become the biggest dating taboo of modern times. Its only because this is a female to male power dynamic that it is accepted, even though the former is much more "natural" and even has societal benefits (children).
It is for precisely the same reason that this movie was produced: the rise of the powerful female class, cat ladies, and even single motherhood. They love the babygirl power dynamic and despise the latter....for precisely the same reason: selfish self interest.
There are plenty of examples of pop culture about older men and younger women, and the problem in real life has always been that women lose agency in these affairs whereas in this movie the younger party got to keep his.
Yeah, like what? It’s basically the most used trope and gives regular old men the impression that young women are into them when young women are pretty much all into men within 5 years of their own age, no matter their age, and dating site stats even prove it. Lol. Most women date within 5 years of themselves for the majority of their lives.
An over 40 male ceo wouldn’t be drinking milk because a 20 year old subordinate woman told him to. Not the same dynamic.
Men in middle management pay to get dominated, they don’t let their interns do it. Wouldn’t get them hard. lol
Plus an old man and young woman is the most common dynamic forced down everyone’s throat in almost all movies and media. It’s the most common trope.
I think all of the age gap stuff is annoying and creepy, but reversing the sexes here is still not even close to the typical old man thing we commonly see
I think that's one of the great ironies of a movie like Babygirl being embraced by the feminist set. Sure, we can say that doing a turnabout of the usual age gap is fair play. But doing so implicitly creates the impression that the old man and young woman stereotype was more defensible than anyone ever really treated it in context. Hollywood typically did their best to obfuscate such age gaps by making the men in those relationships as desirable as possible, and Babygirl is no different. Nicole Kidman having teenage kids here is the only real thing preventing her from plausibly seeming as young as forty by that standard.
This is very true. For me, age gap relationships can be defensible but the impact on the young person must be 100% net positive. The responsibility of the older party is to leave the young person in a better state than they found them, anything else is problematic. The problem with the problematic age gap relationships between older men and younger women is that in the end, the young woman loses her reputation, has her self-confidence crushed, wastes away valuable years, and has her personal development stifled because of the older man’s intervention.
Thing I've always found interesting is how people tend to snicker a lot more when it's an older woman with a younger guy. Older men are applauded for going after younger woman. Also no one ever says ' he looks good for his age'. But if it's a woman over say 40 people will say that all the time.
Take your word on that. Have no opinion either way. Still stand by what I said earlier. Some what modified. People usually don't say that about older guys
In my experience, the hottest females are not necessarily those who fit a set of measurements, but those whose verve, femininity and snap is manifest, and those qualities don't fade as quickly with age.
It is hard enough to type with paws, but this stupid autocorrect is really messing things up.
the hottest everything, as we all find out with age and wisdom my dear feline friend
I wonder if this movie would be just as exciting if Antonio banderas was the doing all the “drink milk and I’ll call you baby girl” stuff. I think the excitement comes from the man being a young puppy kind of guy. Not at risk of actually dominating. Just playing at it. And so it seems interesting to me that Antonio plays the bored(boring?) husband.
So I would certainly find it less hot, but that is me. I think if a man has actual power of you and you have to be genuinely worried about your welfare, that is no longer hot but concerning. You want your primal proclivities tickled just enough but not to the point that your survival instinct kicks in.
Good + Powerful is rare I guess, but that's what really turns me on. Antonio Banderas played a good powerful in Zorro but maybe thats not sexy to women anymore.
"Maslow's complete hierarchy of needs" indeed. Great column.
thank you !
Interesting take. Now we will definitely go see the movie. Might be a topic we want to explore on our podcast. We love stories that show women in all their nuance and complexity. We shouldn't have to be saints to have our stories told and our experiences and desires valued.
We will be seeing a lot more of those in my opinion because the generations of women growing older now are no longer satisfied with being put out to pasture
I was very skeptical of this film after The Idea of You and A Family Affair came out last year, but you're right in pointing out that more female directors working in the industry mean that we get to see stories that up until now seemed reserved exclusively to men. We've had decades of witnessing older men seduce incredibly young and attractive women and when the roles are reversed we still flinch a bit, as if that possibility were totally unconceivable, be it because we can't get our head around a younger man truly wanting an older woman, be it because we have been conditioned to believe desire and sex are the realm of the young (or the men). Women of all ages have always had desires of their own, but they've never been given many outlets to express them and represent them without judgement. While I agree with other comments about how a woman of that status of Nicole Kidman in this film probably wouldn't be so keen on such a young man -which is different from not being interested at all in a younger man-, after watching the trailer of the film yesterday at the cinema and reading your thoughts here, I'm definitely very intrigued to see this movie when it's out in the UK. Besides, a bit of healthy female sexual vindication on screen never hurt anyone.
I have not watched family affair but I liked the idea of you for delivering on what it is advertised as: a light-hearted entertainment romance like the Lindsay Lohan ones I used to inhale as a teenager. They don't all have to be deep and meaningful, I am just happy sometimes to get movies that reflect the whole of human desire and experience and not just the same tropes. I thought Babygirl was a good movie overall too, not just the story. I loved the acting and casting, and the cinematography was breathtaking.
I agree with him being an affective dominant in the way he tailors that experience FOR her, specially. Most men in BDSM are absolute SHIT at service-topping in this way because they are in it for their dicks. Lol. This guy tops like a lesbian, probably because he was written by a woman. 99% of your power comes from understanding the person submitting to you in a deep way. It’s a mindfuck FIRST. He’s listening and watching, the hot part about being him is giving her that experience, the power of it.
yeap, exactly, if you are just playacting being dominant without being fully present for the other person's needs then the other person can't truly submit, they can't turn off until you hit that button.
Holy God I love you so much. Every sentence here...chef's kiss. I would not have watched this before bc romancey type movies/erotic thrillers are not really my jam, but now I'm definitely watching it just because I love your voice here so much.
Please please become a man-eating 40-something boss bitch one day, just so I can read about it and cheer for you.
(But just one tiny itty bit nit/edit...you wrote about the Time cover article said less likely to be "blown off by a terrorist". That means getting ghosted by a terrorist in English, you mean "blown up").
LOL, inshallah Kate (corrections always appreciated, thanks). It's not the best film of the year, but I am just enjoying older women, younger men romances lately. I also liked watching 'The Idea of You', though obviously it is a very light movie. I miss watching rom comms as a teenager, with Lindsay Lohan and the likes, just for the cute/sexy plot line.
I read it in a weirdly sexual way, like a deranged apocalyptic man performing one last act of mouth-based service to a lady.
Ha, well that would make for an even weirder Times cover article! 😂
Babygirl was fascinating. I don't relate to the kinkiness, but then I am not a very masculine (straight) guy. I'd like to hear from other readers: Is something like the power dynamic in the movie present in many/most male-female relationships?
I personally don't think that there is because that dynamic is quite specific and difficult to maintain. Most couples have the dynamic of friends- anything else would not be sustainable as life is not a multi-decades long kink game.
I'm forty years in to my relationship/marriage (we are both 62). We've developed spheres of differentiated power. It's sort of like the law of comparative advantage in economics.
A woman in power would never go for a guy like this, she would laugh at him and he would have ED for the rest of his life from the humiliation. Maybe if he looked like Harris and was charming and submissive he would have a better chance, but it’s hard to imagine this woman would fuck around on that husband for this kid. It’s hard to suspend disbelief.
I just don't know I can agree with you. Why do you say that she would laugh at him or prefer him being submissive?
Because women in power don’t respect young, cocky men at work who think they have more power, especially because they had to fight men all the way to the top. The scenario just wouldn’t play out at all in a workplace. Not with a woman at her level. I could see it happening if he was not a coworker and not in the workplace at all.
It depends, I don’t think he was being just cocky, he was being sweet in my opinion. I think confidence is hot and if a woman is secure enough in her own power she won’t mind youthful brassiness - at least, I find I don’t the older I get. I find the boys I used to find triggering when I was a teenager for the threat they posed to my own value to be endearingly silly now I am older, and a reflection of their own budding self-image crisis.
You see them from a motherly lens, then, which is still not seeing them as “sexy” but “cute” little boy. An older woman wouldn’t be dominated by a junior she thinks is cute/silly/endearing. Plus a woman who feels motherly would be unlikely to be a ceo to begin with, tbh.
Try reversing the sexes: a over 40's male CEO dating a twenty something female intern and you will see the wrath of what has become the biggest dating taboo of modern times. Its only because this is a female to male power dynamic that it is accepted, even though the former is much more "natural" and even has societal benefits (children).
It is for precisely the same reason that this movie was produced: the rise of the powerful female class, cat ladies, and even single motherhood. They love the babygirl power dynamic and despise the latter....for precisely the same reason: selfish self interest.
There are plenty of examples of pop culture about older men and younger women, and the problem in real life has always been that women lose agency in these affairs whereas in this movie the younger party got to keep his.
Yeah even if it was an old man and young woman it would still be subverting the trope that all these fogies want to see. lol
Rivals by Jilly Cooper has just been made into a blindingly successful tv series. Go watch that and reappraise your worldview.
Uh, this was like basically every movie made 1970-2010.
Yeah, like what? It’s basically the most used trope and gives regular old men the impression that young women are into them when young women are pretty much all into men within 5 years of their own age, no matter their age, and dating site stats even prove it. Lol. Most women date within 5 years of themselves for the majority of their lives.
An over 40 male ceo wouldn’t be drinking milk because a 20 year old subordinate woman told him to. Not the same dynamic.
Men in middle management pay to get dominated, they don’t let their interns do it. Wouldn’t get them hard. lol
Plus an old man and young woman is the most common dynamic forced down everyone’s throat in almost all movies and media. It’s the most common trope.
I think all of the age gap stuff is annoying and creepy, but reversing the sexes here is still not even close to the typical old man thing we commonly see
I think that's one of the great ironies of a movie like Babygirl being embraced by the feminist set. Sure, we can say that doing a turnabout of the usual age gap is fair play. But doing so implicitly creates the impression that the old man and young woman stereotype was more defensible than anyone ever really treated it in context. Hollywood typically did their best to obfuscate such age gaps by making the men in those relationships as desirable as possible, and Babygirl is no different. Nicole Kidman having teenage kids here is the only real thing preventing her from plausibly seeming as young as forty by that standard.
This is very true. For me, age gap relationships can be defensible but the impact on the young person must be 100% net positive. The responsibility of the older party is to leave the young person in a better state than they found them, anything else is problematic. The problem with the problematic age gap relationships between older men and younger women is that in the end, the young woman loses her reputation, has her self-confidence crushed, wastes away valuable years, and has her personal development stifled because of the older man’s intervention.
All true but cultures change rapidly. Try doing this now and see the backlash given, its huge.
Haven't watched the movie. But I will after reading this post I will.
Thing I've always found interesting is how people tend to snicker a lot more when it's an older woman with a younger guy. Older men are applauded for going after younger woman. Also no one ever says ' he looks good for his age'. But if it's a woman over say 40 people will say that all the time.
I turned 30 and many men my age still see themselves as being in their early twenties
There’s an economic aspect to it too. https://www.wsj.com/economy/what-happens-when-a-whole-generation-never-grows-up-d200e9ef?st=jmbirb
You'll find that will stay the same as you turn 40, and 50, and you get the idea
Tom Cruise very much “looks good for his age.” That was the first thing I noticed when I saw Top Gun 2!
Take your word on that. Have no opinion either way. Still stand by what I said earlier. Some what modified. People usually don't say that about older guys
I wanted to see this before and now I want to even more! Thank you.
it was excellent, go go go!