I'm American, but live in Sweden, which isn't known for its nightlife, to say the least. You also must book all social interactions weeks (or months!) in advance here, especially in Stockholm. This is sad, but endurable, given that I'm a dad to a 4YO and a Golden Retriever and my wife and I are quite comfortable being much more boring than our selves of yesteryear.
But there are times where you want the coffee that turns into an impromptu dance party and shots with strangers! And the wonderful thing about social life in the Mediterranean is that you needn't "age out" of it. Parties are multi-generational.
I think, frankly, the trade-off here is that in order for people to be fully human like this, they need to be a bit idle. Which means that they are likely unwealthy and underemployed.
I also experienced (and miss!) the vivid streetlife of various African metropolises that I lived in in my more intrepid 20s. Addis Ababa is an absolute blast. And it's so fun because people just have a lot of time and nowhere to be. When the party stops, though, it's not always fun being unwealthy and underemployed, even if your community is a jewel. And it's not la dolce vida all the time for youths of 20-31 in Greece, Italy, Spain, et al.
You are very right. I live full-time in London and have just become self-employed (which has boosted my mood and means I have my own schedule) and only visit Greece 2-3 times a year. My city has a booming nightlife year round, but the Christmas- NY period is extra special because everyone goes out simultaneously, and all the expats visit home for the holidays. Locals often remind me that they don't spend their nights like this throughout the year and also that I would feel depressed if I was in Greece and either underemployed or doing a job I hate. And also I live in the second largest city in Greece (which is still small enough, less than half a million people) and much of my social circle are upper-middle-class people with access to resources. However, I still think Greek social culture is just significantly warmer and more spontaneous and open across class lines.
I recently had this conversation on Sweden which I find had changed so much in the last few decades as has most of the world. Swedes are very loyal friends and may be hard to get out with and meet and arrange last minute parties with but once you know them and you know them well those friendships are solid and there are parties and connections that are multi-generational only that you need to have built on those relationships. Having also spent a lot of time visiting Greece, it's changed so much to resemble northern Europe. People are depressed, a lot more careful with money as there's a lot less of it and you rarely get invited to someone's home anymore like in the 70s, 80s and 90s. While it's warmer than let's say Sweden, it's not at all what it used to be. And that's quite sad. But it boils down to how much you invest in relationships. Great comment and enjoy life in Sweden!
People rarely buy each other shots also westerners "proper" are cheap, and every treat needs to be calculated tit for tat.
That, and the robotic English (or protestant western) obsession with punctuality and compartmentalized time-frames, are among of the things that make the casual partying, "hanging out casually and seeing where the night takes you" that you describe difficult or non-existant (at least for ages beyond college)
Yes, I am afraid that for all of my idolisation of my lovely Brits I agree. There is a lot of meanness and penny-pinching in northern and central Europe. In Greece, you would never host a party and ask people to bring their own booze (which I don't think is a bad thing that it happens but is telling), and you would always offer people food if they came by your home. I used to think it's because everything is so expensive but the more people with disposable cash I meet the more I realise it is just the culture. Presumably it served a purpose and led many to amass fortunes that convinced them it was the right way to live, but what you gain materially you lose spiritually.
Thank you Stella. I feel seen in every paragraph, from being hard of hearing and 'not a music fan', to liking Britney and Valaoritou. It is so rare as a Greek expat woman to find articles, or any art, so relatable, that sometimes it feels like you extracted words from my mind. It is touching. I forwarded your article to my boyfriend, but really I want to share it with the whole world.
And it means a lot to me to read this. I sometimes wonder if my writing is too tailored to people who are like me, from my background or whatever, and if I should be writing for a wider audience, but then, who cares? Thessaloniki girls deserve to be written for and about just as much as any other people. Every time I come back now I reconnect with the culture that brought me up more deeply and have found I can enjoy our city and our people more readily. Have you found your social experience of the city to change over the years at all ? I love the bar I bumped into you at that last night by the way
"You start your night with a friend, and by the morning, you have hopped around three different groups of people who haven’t talked to you since high school or who just met you, but it is never weird that you are following them to the next bar."
Yes, yes, and yes. I'm not Greek, but I know exactly what you are talking about. I come from a similar background, nearby Greece, and people there live lives that money can't buy.
I love to see Greece represented! Especially as a Greek Londoner. I also find the social life of Greece so vastly different from London, I feel way more at home in Athens, a city I've never lived in, to London, a city I've lived in for five years. It's quite cool how customs can touch us in a way that has us write a whole Substack essay about them. Great work!
Give London a bit more time, took me about that time to fall in love with it. I was not enamoured with it during uni but later, the more involved I got the more it charmed my socks off. I did not use to love going out at home the way I do now, but age has made me yearn for the familiar and for people with common references from before my frontal lobe was fully developed. Did you study in London ?
The whole article reminds me of being young in the 70s in America. Lots of idol time, no technology, overwhelming and untamed bodily energy. All leading to a flow of life that felt very organic. We roamed freely, and at at length. No oversight, no restraint. And your article makes me think, back to that place in ourselves we should try to go.
That sounds exactly how I felt over the last two weeks. I would put my phone in my bag and forget about it. I would never want to sleep. On New Year's Day, after being out all night from NY eve, till 11:00 am in the morning, I walked home for an hour and a half because the sun was burning and I was restless and it was too beautiful and felt too lovely to cop out and call a cab and hide under a duvet. But I am sad when I think that this year or next could be my last I feel like that. Give me hope. Are there equally engaging states awaiting me in later life?
Some stunning sentences nestled in there! This also makes me want to visit Greece, where I live in America (a quite nice, desirable ever-growing town-that’s-not-a -city), this town square and places to socialize for prolonged periods that don’t involve a dingy dive bar on a lame commercial street, is sorely lacking. Doesn’t seem like something easily changed, this type of cultural way of being and socializing.
As much as I love America and Americans - despite the bad press, I think it is a country and people deeply redeemable in so many ways - I struggle with the lack of high streets and squares where people congregate naturally outside of NYC and a handful of other places. I love walking, and bar hopping and I find that spontaneity is lost when you have to get in the car to do anything.
Electronic music is a tricky one because there's so much variety; it's a genre filled with genres.
I hated it as a teenager (being indie/alt/grunge) but then came to love it at the end of high school as I took drugs and went to/helped host raves with my friends. But these days I'm super selective with the electronic music I listen to because I can't really get into it the same way that I used to. There's something for everyone there, but it takes sometimes a lot of time to find the kind of music that suits you best.
yes, you are right. I think I managed to enjoy it more this time because I was listening to live mixes by a specific group who are from my city and school so presumably, the sounds/songs they chose to mix resonated more with me etc. Why do you think you can no longer get into it in the same way?
Well, it was never really my thing, but my best friend and eventually my entire friend group was into it, so it only made sense to join in on the fun. Plus, when you're young and out with friends taking drugs, really anything can be a good time.
I still enjoy a little house and little techno, but the UK has some fantastic DnB which was mostly what I used to listen to.
"Dancing and singing crowds spil into the street and stop a traffic that is always bad but on New Year’s Eve truly tests the most prized Greek cultural value of nothing on time."
“One aspect I struggled with when going out was the music. I used to find electronic music challenging. From 1-10, I give it a generous 4 during daytime. Men usually can convince me to go to a rave, but I need to find them irresistible to make the ear rape worth it. It is entirely understandable that most people need to snort horse tranquiliser to enjoy it.”
Chef’s kiss, no notes. Replace “man” with “woman,” and this was me until my wife got me into it at the right festivals.
Love reading about this city! I think I visited that Chinese restaurant many years ago. Unless there were many but I was told there was only one in the centre of town. It's great you had such a lovely new years and holiday celebration. Makes it a lot easier to end the year and start a new one on such a high. Having visited Greece regularly over the years I see how walls have come up and how much more people struggle to host, or go out or even meet for a coffee. It's difficult and you now need to plan and arrange a lot more, as if it was northern Europe. Relationships (not only the romantic ones) have become a lot more complicated and I hear the same from people living there. Sadly it's across the board and you need to fight tooth and nail to keep these friendships, so you're very lucky to have had such a blast!
Great stories Stella, thank you for the entertainment. That vibe of mixing with different groups where everybody is super friendly is available here in Newcastle, amazing nightlife if you ever get chance. I’m from Birmingham and we have an old industrial area full of all sorts of food and music bars open till the early hours which you would love. I also came late to House music, it was a track by Darood that got me into it, now I can’t get enough, and its great for doing workouts to! We had the famous Gods Kitchen in Birmingham which was brilliant. I also do raves without drugs, the music is the drug, and the immediate connection with other people is amazing. London is so huge you need to find the right places I suppose.
It is one of my goals this year to find more places where I can socialise like this in London, of course there are places, there must be. I used to have favourites, I just wish they were a bit more open to mixing with people who are not from your group. Interesting about Newcastle, when I was a teenager in Greece and doing my UCAS applications I did not want to come to London because I wanted to be a part of smaller community like in my city and did not care to live a big city life. I only applied to my uni, Queen Mary University of London, because it was ranked 3rd for law in the country in the Guardian league tables. I also applied to Newcastle...because I thought it would be more contained and easier to find blend in with the locals and I wanted to experience the 'English' life. Alas, perhaps it's for the best I ended up in London because the cold up there would have wiped me off (I am a lightweight when it comes to both drink and weather) and I guess London is easier as an immigrant who wanted to do the unthinkable, get into politics and work in Parliament with no prior connections to country or party. What's the track by Darood that got you hooked ?
The track is Sandstorm by Darude (sorry), and even better is Blow my mind by Lock n Load, it really did blow my mind!
London is best for your career but small towns are much more friendly. Good job you didn’t go to Newcastle, you wouldn’t have understood a word they said! Why don’t you come up and see Birmingham and I’ll take you to a House club, my treat.
Thanks for your reply Stella, you must be so busy and I appreciate you finding time. The Darude (misspelt previously) track was Sandstorm, then a track by Lock n Load called Blow you mind really is blow my mind. Try them but must be at bone vibrating volume to really appreciate them. Good job you didn’t get into Newcastle, you wouldn’t have understood a word they said, different language up there! You’re very welcome to come up to Birmingham to go to a House club, I’d pay for everything.
I did think some Americans might think that, I remember first seeing stuff online about 'Greek life' thinking it was my motherland only to realise it was about ritual humiliation, orgies and alcohol binges :-P
I'm American, but live in Sweden, which isn't known for its nightlife, to say the least. You also must book all social interactions weeks (or months!) in advance here, especially in Stockholm. This is sad, but endurable, given that I'm a dad to a 4YO and a Golden Retriever and my wife and I are quite comfortable being much more boring than our selves of yesteryear.
But there are times where you want the coffee that turns into an impromptu dance party and shots with strangers! And the wonderful thing about social life in the Mediterranean is that you needn't "age out" of it. Parties are multi-generational.
I think, frankly, the trade-off here is that in order for people to be fully human like this, they need to be a bit idle. Which means that they are likely unwealthy and underemployed.
I also experienced (and miss!) the vivid streetlife of various African metropolises that I lived in in my more intrepid 20s. Addis Ababa is an absolute blast. And it's so fun because people just have a lot of time and nowhere to be. When the party stops, though, it's not always fun being unwealthy and underemployed, even if your community is a jewel. And it's not la dolce vida all the time for youths of 20-31 in Greece, Italy, Spain, et al.
You are very right. I live full-time in London and have just become self-employed (which has boosted my mood and means I have my own schedule) and only visit Greece 2-3 times a year. My city has a booming nightlife year round, but the Christmas- NY period is extra special because everyone goes out simultaneously, and all the expats visit home for the holidays. Locals often remind me that they don't spend their nights like this throughout the year and also that I would feel depressed if I was in Greece and either underemployed or doing a job I hate. And also I live in the second largest city in Greece (which is still small enough, less than half a million people) and much of my social circle are upper-middle-class people with access to resources. However, I still think Greek social culture is just significantly warmer and more spontaneous and open across class lines.
I recently had this conversation on Sweden which I find had changed so much in the last few decades as has most of the world. Swedes are very loyal friends and may be hard to get out with and meet and arrange last minute parties with but once you know them and you know them well those friendships are solid and there are parties and connections that are multi-generational only that you need to have built on those relationships. Having also spent a lot of time visiting Greece, it's changed so much to resemble northern Europe. People are depressed, a lot more careful with money as there's a lot less of it and you rarely get invited to someone's home anymore like in the 70s, 80s and 90s. While it's warmer than let's say Sweden, it's not at all what it used to be. And that's quite sad. But it boils down to how much you invest in relationships. Great comment and enjoy life in Sweden!
“You shouldn’t listen to electronic music ambiently. You need to focus on it.”
didn’t expect to read a line of techno wisdom here but i’m all for it
Thanks, hope it resonated with you. Think of me next time you rave.
People rarely buy each other shots also westerners "proper" are cheap, and every treat needs to be calculated tit for tat.
That, and the robotic English (or protestant western) obsession with punctuality and compartmentalized time-frames, are among of the things that make the casual partying, "hanging out casually and seeing where the night takes you" that you describe difficult or non-existant (at least for ages beyond college)
Yes, I am afraid that for all of my idolisation of my lovely Brits I agree. There is a lot of meanness and penny-pinching in northern and central Europe. In Greece, you would never host a party and ask people to bring their own booze (which I don't think is a bad thing that it happens but is telling), and you would always offer people food if they came by your home. I used to think it's because everything is so expensive but the more people with disposable cash I meet the more I realise it is just the culture. Presumably it served a purpose and led many to amass fortunes that convinced them it was the right way to live, but what you gain materially you lose spiritually.
Thank you Stella. I feel seen in every paragraph, from being hard of hearing and 'not a music fan', to liking Britney and Valaoritou. It is so rare as a Greek expat woman to find articles, or any art, so relatable, that sometimes it feels like you extracted words from my mind. It is touching. I forwarded your article to my boyfriend, but really I want to share it with the whole world.
And it means a lot to me to read this. I sometimes wonder if my writing is too tailored to people who are like me, from my background or whatever, and if I should be writing for a wider audience, but then, who cares? Thessaloniki girls deserve to be written for and about just as much as any other people. Every time I come back now I reconnect with the culture that brought me up more deeply and have found I can enjoy our city and our people more readily. Have you found your social experience of the city to change over the years at all ? I love the bar I bumped into you at that last night by the way
"You start your night with a friend, and by the morning, you have hopped around three different groups of people who haven’t talked to you since high school or who just met you, but it is never weird that you are following them to the next bar."
Yes, yes, and yes. I'm not Greek, but I know exactly what you are talking about. I come from a similar background, nearby Greece, and people there live lives that money can't buy.
'People live lives that money can't buy' damn now that's a line. Thanks for reading fellow Balkan-er (I assume that's the region you are referring to)
I love to see Greece represented! Especially as a Greek Londoner. I also find the social life of Greece so vastly different from London, I feel way more at home in Athens, a city I've never lived in, to London, a city I've lived in for five years. It's quite cool how customs can touch us in a way that has us write a whole Substack essay about them. Great work!
Give London a bit more time, took me about that time to fall in love with it. I was not enamoured with it during uni but later, the more involved I got the more it charmed my socks off. I did not use to love going out at home the way I do now, but age has made me yearn for the familiar and for people with common references from before my frontal lobe was fully developed. Did you study in London ?
The whole article reminds me of being young in the 70s in America. Lots of idol time, no technology, overwhelming and untamed bodily energy. All leading to a flow of life that felt very organic. We roamed freely, and at at length. No oversight, no restraint. And your article makes me think, back to that place in ourselves we should try to go.
That sounds exactly how I felt over the last two weeks. I would put my phone in my bag and forget about it. I would never want to sleep. On New Year's Day, after being out all night from NY eve, till 11:00 am in the morning, I walked home for an hour and a half because the sun was burning and I was restless and it was too beautiful and felt too lovely to cop out and call a cab and hide under a duvet. But I am sad when I think that this year or next could be my last I feel like that. Give me hope. Are there equally engaging states awaiting me in later life?
Some stunning sentences nestled in there! This also makes me want to visit Greece, where I live in America (a quite nice, desirable ever-growing town-that’s-not-a -city), this town square and places to socialize for prolonged periods that don’t involve a dingy dive bar on a lame commercial street, is sorely lacking. Doesn’t seem like something easily changed, this type of cultural way of being and socializing.
As much as I love America and Americans - despite the bad press, I think it is a country and people deeply redeemable in so many ways - I struggle with the lack of high streets and squares where people congregate naturally outside of NYC and a handful of other places. I love walking, and bar hopping and I find that spontaneity is lost when you have to get in the car to do anything.
Electronic music is a tricky one because there's so much variety; it's a genre filled with genres.
I hated it as a teenager (being indie/alt/grunge) but then came to love it at the end of high school as I took drugs and went to/helped host raves with my friends. But these days I'm super selective with the electronic music I listen to because I can't really get into it the same way that I used to. There's something for everyone there, but it takes sometimes a lot of time to find the kind of music that suits you best.
yes, you are right. I think I managed to enjoy it more this time because I was listening to live mixes by a specific group who are from my city and school so presumably, the sounds/songs they chose to mix resonated more with me etc. Why do you think you can no longer get into it in the same way?
Well, it was never really my thing, but my best friend and eventually my entire friend group was into it, so it only made sense to join in on the fun. Plus, when you're young and out with friends taking drugs, really anything can be a good time.
I still enjoy a little house and little techno, but the UK has some fantastic DnB which was mostly what I used to listen to.
"Dancing and singing crowds spil into the street and stop a traffic that is always bad but on New Year’s Eve truly tests the most prized Greek cultural value of nothing on time."
more of this kind of stuff!!
thank you Stephen :-)
“One aspect I struggled with when going out was the music. I used to find electronic music challenging. From 1-10, I give it a generous 4 during daytime. Men usually can convince me to go to a rave, but I need to find them irresistible to make the ear rape worth it. It is entirely understandable that most people need to snort horse tranquiliser to enjoy it.”
Chef’s kiss, no notes. Replace “man” with “woman,” and this was me until my wife got me into it at the right festivals.
Damn, I love it. Thanks :-)
Love reading about this city! I think I visited that Chinese restaurant many years ago. Unless there were many but I was told there was only one in the centre of town. It's great you had such a lovely new years and holiday celebration. Makes it a lot easier to end the year and start a new one on such a high. Having visited Greece regularly over the years I see how walls have come up and how much more people struggle to host, or go out or even meet for a coffee. It's difficult and you now need to plan and arrange a lot more, as if it was northern Europe. Relationships (not only the romantic ones) have become a lot more complicated and I hear the same from people living there. Sadly it's across the board and you need to fight tooth and nail to keep these friendships, so you're very lucky to have had such a blast!
Great stories Stella, thank you for the entertainment. That vibe of mixing with different groups where everybody is super friendly is available here in Newcastle, amazing nightlife if you ever get chance. I’m from Birmingham and we have an old industrial area full of all sorts of food and music bars open till the early hours which you would love. I also came late to House music, it was a track by Darood that got me into it, now I can’t get enough, and its great for doing workouts to! We had the famous Gods Kitchen in Birmingham which was brilliant. I also do raves without drugs, the music is the drug, and the immediate connection with other people is amazing. London is so huge you need to find the right places I suppose.
It is one of my goals this year to find more places where I can socialise like this in London, of course there are places, there must be. I used to have favourites, I just wish they were a bit more open to mixing with people who are not from your group. Interesting about Newcastle, when I was a teenager in Greece and doing my UCAS applications I did not want to come to London because I wanted to be a part of smaller community like in my city and did not care to live a big city life. I only applied to my uni, Queen Mary University of London, because it was ranked 3rd for law in the country in the Guardian league tables. I also applied to Newcastle...because I thought it would be more contained and easier to find blend in with the locals and I wanted to experience the 'English' life. Alas, perhaps it's for the best I ended up in London because the cold up there would have wiped me off (I am a lightweight when it comes to both drink and weather) and I guess London is easier as an immigrant who wanted to do the unthinkable, get into politics and work in Parliament with no prior connections to country or party. What's the track by Darood that got you hooked ?
The track is Sandstorm by Darude (sorry), and even better is Blow my mind by Lock n Load, it really did blow my mind!
London is best for your career but small towns are much more friendly. Good job you didn’t go to Newcastle, you wouldn’t have understood a word they said! Why don’t you come up and see Birmingham and I’ll take you to a House club, my treat.
ah I am glad I made the right choice then! and thank you very much for the invite, very very kind :-)
Thanks for your reply Stella, you must be so busy and I appreciate you finding time. The Darude (misspelt previously) track was Sandstorm, then a track by Lock n Load called Blow you mind really is blow my mind. Try them but must be at bone vibrating volume to really appreciate them. Good job you didn’t get into Newcastle, you wouldn’t have understood a word they said, different language up there! You’re very welcome to come up to Birmingham to go to a House club, I’d pay for everything.
I thought this was going to be an article about fraternities and sororities throwing techno parties
I did think some Americans might think that, I remember first seeing stuff online about 'Greek life' thinking it was my motherland only to realise it was about ritual humiliation, orgies and alcohol binges :-P
It's just an illusion.