As a former cougar enthusiast when I was in my 20s, I heartily support this message. The emotional maturity + sexual prime nexus of women in the 35-50 age bracket is unmatched by any other demographic on this planet. Any young man lucky enough to experience this firsthand should count his blessings.
Being able to have an intellectually stimulating conversation with someone I also wanted to primally devour was a singular and divine experience.
As a millennial who dated a Gen z man (I was 22, he was 20. So I guess we weren’t far off), unfortunately he wanted to finish his PhD before even thinking about marriage and kids. That puts me at least 29 before he’s even willing to think about it (that is, if he finishes a PhD in the perfect 5 years—statistics say otherwise for our field). Given I wanted 3 kids, that was just too late for me. Not that every zoomer wants to do a PhD, sure. But many men don’t feel established and ready in their early-mid 20s, which is how old a lot of zoomers are now. In my experience the younger a man is, the more time he’ll want to date you before settling down. And given that even the youngest millennial women (me) are early 30s now and most are mid 30s and older, I’m just not sure if they can wait around for zoomer men, if more than one child is on the agenda.
We actually broke up partly due to the timeline problem. Not to say he’d never change his mind about anything. Maybe he’d change his mind about the PhD. Or his timeline about marriage and kids. But I didn’t want to wait around and see.
But you guys were way too young, regardless. I am 30 and wouldn’t mind 3 kids, and I think a decade is plenty of time for me to do this. If you prioritise being with someone you are in love with, however each person realistically defines that, then being ok with dating younger is a good idea. I also think that often a guy in his mid-twenties attracted to women in his 30s may be doing it either because he doesn’t want to be taken seriously or because he is mature and likes looking up to someone, in which case I don’t think them getting married in their late 20s is off the table. Zoomers I think will also start getting married earlier.
haha I don't know I have quite a few in mind. To be fair quite a few I met through political circles in London, but I see the same in the Greek ones I meet back home. Polling confirms what you are saying.
Perhaps people should date the people they intend to marry, with whom they can form stable pair bonds and create children.
No society has ever run an experiment to discover whether too much individualism can cause the whole structure to collapse. I wonder if that’s what we’re doing.
Maybe but you can’t ever really change people’s behaviour through exhortation. You have to change the structures (economy and politics), to change the culture. Where do you think all this individualism comes from?
That’s for sure. Reintroducing shame and stigma, and abolishing the structures that help protect people from the consequences of their own choices would do wonders. Why not spend your life playing when other, poorer people have to pay for it? Why have kids or get married when you can rely on entitlements and bureaucracies and social programs to support you? Why engage with a community when you can be a freewheeling urban child? Of course your life will turn out to be empty and aimless, and you’ll spend the last few decades alone and waiting to die. But the young don’t care about that.
"Why engage with a community when you can be a freewheeling urban child?"
I don't know which country you're in, but here in USA at least, there is more community spirit/involvement in urban centers than in the suburbs or rural areas.
This is so true! From a man’s perspective I feel more understood with older women than when I’m dating my age or younger women. Well, something about me has always disliked dating very much younger women than me. Because I feel life has exposed me to a lot of burdens that could make my way of life so complicated for them to follow. Back to the women my age or close aged, I see them more often than not trying to fix my life and perspective before even trying to understand my viewpoint. By the way, it’s not like my life is going bad - I’m actually doing absolutely okay for my career and personal life for my age. But then with older women, I simply mostly see admiration and someone seriously interested to understand how I’ve been getting on so well and what pushes me to do what I do (my drive in life). At the end, it’s all about understanding, connection, mutual respect, and less arguments/rough edges.
“If you are going to have an age gap, a slightly younger man/older woman combo is proven to work best. Women who are 7–10 years older than their male partners score significantly higher on sexual satisfaction, arousal and orgasm frequency than younger women dating older men. Women with much younger partners were ‘the most satisfied and committed’ of all female age-gap groups. Wives are happiest when married to younger husbands, while wives with older husbands report lower satisfaction.”
Yes, but none of these figures indicate whether this mode of pairing works best. Maybe women who are inclined to date younger men tend to be happier? Maybe these relationships are shorter? Maybe they’re not as good for producing and raising children? Romantic relationships don’t exist for personal fulfillment. Only our society has ever believed that, and our society is the barrenest, loneliest, most neurotic society that has ever existed.
"Women who are 7–10 years older than their male partners score significantly higher on sexual satisfaction, arousal and orgasm frequency than younger women dating older men."
--- Interesting, if also counter-intuitive. We used to hear that men who were age gap older (10 or more years) to women made better lovers. Young women said that guys their own age or younger were "selfish in bed" whereas older gentleman were more giving and concerned with her pleasure.
"Women with much younger partners were “the most satisfied and committed” of all female age-gap groups. Wives are happiest when married to younger husbands, while wives with older husbands report lower satisfaction."
--- That makes sense. Young people have young vibes and makes the atmosphere lighter, more carefree and joyful.
To be fair, obviously this is different person to person, but some people may prefer the ‘culture’ of one generation over another. I find the sensitivity of some zoomers endearing.
Great piece Stella, very thought provoking once again and a nice break from politics.
There are no rules, enjoy a variety of those you feel attracted to whatever the age, within reason, and one day one of those will be a keeper. You only look like you’re 25 so you can easily get away with looking good with a younger bloke. Sexually, a younger man works better in a marriage as sexual energy will be better matched.
In re #8: I don’t think this is true at all. Your average mid-twenties guy is less emotionally mature than your average 35-45 yo guy. And crying? I mean, if a guy opens up about being molested as a kid or sees a family member die in front of them, then yes he can cry and no one will begrudge him that. But if he’s crying because someone was mean to him at work (or something similar) it might be refreshing/unique at first, but if it continues you will probably find it pathetic and it will definitely not be *hot*.
28 and 24 are the same age, very much in the same generation/age range. Age gap relationships start at around 12 years difference. Why on earth would you "feel bad" about dating someone your own age?
"Don’t date people you want to become. Until a couple of years ago, I would often date those I wanted to be like. I wanted them, but more than that, I wanted to be them. I started realising that if I continued this way, I would get married to someone I admired and live my whole life in their shadow, breeding resentment for my unfulfilled potential."
You have the brain of a man. Likely higher testosterone than most women. Your advice isn't going to fit most women with normal jawlines.
As a former cougar enthusiast when I was in my 20s, I heartily support this message. The emotional maturity + sexual prime nexus of women in the 35-50 age bracket is unmatched by any other demographic on this planet. Any young man lucky enough to experience this firsthand should count his blessings.
Being able to have an intellectually stimulating conversation with someone I also wanted to primally devour was a singular and divine experience.
*slow claps* it is a win win
Gen z men are quite sweet. I’m glad someone else has noticed this.
❤️
I got woke-scolded by this athlete the other week. Put a sharp end to my edginess. Leftist hot men are husband material 😍
You are seeing the light
Translation: Stella is currently shagging a 20 year old and wants all her friends to stop bullying her for it
This is non-balding millennial erasure, and I won’t stand for it!
(Signed: millennial with a surprising number of balding friends, looking for millennial women)
Millennials are too young to be balding. What's going on?
it was tongue in cheek
Oldest Millennials are now in their early 40s.
also correct
Alas, two of my closest friends started losing their hair in their twenties
Isn't that a sign of high T levels?
I think so, but also genetics
As a millennial who dated a Gen z man (I was 22, he was 20. So I guess we weren’t far off), unfortunately he wanted to finish his PhD before even thinking about marriage and kids. That puts me at least 29 before he’s even willing to think about it (that is, if he finishes a PhD in the perfect 5 years—statistics say otherwise for our field). Given I wanted 3 kids, that was just too late for me. Not that every zoomer wants to do a PhD, sure. But many men don’t feel established and ready in their early-mid 20s, which is how old a lot of zoomers are now. In my experience the younger a man is, the more time he’ll want to date you before settling down. And given that even the youngest millennial women (me) are early 30s now and most are mid 30s and older, I’m just not sure if they can wait around for zoomer men, if more than one child is on the agenda.
We actually broke up partly due to the timeline problem. Not to say he’d never change his mind about anything. Maybe he’d change his mind about the PhD. Or his timeline about marriage and kids. But I didn’t want to wait around and see.
But you guys were way too young, regardless. I am 30 and wouldn’t mind 3 kids, and I think a decade is plenty of time for me to do this. If you prioritise being with someone you are in love with, however each person realistically defines that, then being ok with dating younger is a good idea. I also think that often a guy in his mid-twenties attracted to women in his 30s may be doing it either because he doesn’t want to be taken seriously or because he is mature and likes looking up to someone, in which case I don’t think them getting married in their late 20s is off the table. Zoomers I think will also start getting married earlier.
This is a woke fantasy. Only a woman who does not understand what masculinity is can recommend dating 10 years younger men.
Fantasy for some, sure. But for the author it's her real life, offline. Be happy for others and they will be happy for you in return.
Peace, brother.
I want to know where you're finding these progressive gen Z men </3 in my experience they are like the core demographic for being redpilled
haha I don't know I have quite a few in mind. To be fair quite a few I met through political circles in London, but I see the same in the Greek ones I meet back home. Polling confirms what you are saying.
Polling shmolling! It's all online posture. Offline they are purring kittens.
Perhaps people should date the people they intend to marry, with whom they can form stable pair bonds and create children.
No society has ever run an experiment to discover whether too much individualism can cause the whole structure to collapse. I wonder if that’s what we’re doing.
https://jmpolemic.substack.com/p/its-a-womans-duty-to-choose-well
gen z men make excellent husbands for millenial women in my opinion
Maybe, but how many children can your cohort still make with them? What’s in it for them?
Your generation may have to settle for divorcees with no interest in having more children than they already do.
" how many children can your cohort still make with them?"
At least 2.
Maybe but you can’t ever really change people’s behaviour through exhortation. You have to change the structures (economy and politics), to change the culture. Where do you think all this individualism comes from?
That’s for sure. Reintroducing shame and stigma, and abolishing the structures that help protect people from the consequences of their own choices would do wonders. Why not spend your life playing when other, poorer people have to pay for it? Why have kids or get married when you can rely on entitlements and bureaucracies and social programs to support you? Why engage with a community when you can be a freewheeling urban child? Of course your life will turn out to be empty and aimless, and you’ll spend the last few decades alone and waiting to die. But the young don’t care about that.
Shame men for being fuckboys, this is irrelevant to millennial women dating gen z men.
Why embrace social responsibility and civic values in a society that glorifies private wealth and defines success in terms of money and status?
indeed, and celebrates lack of shame
Sir this is a Wendy's . .
"Why engage with a community when you can be a freewheeling urban child?"
I don't know which country you're in, but here in USA at least, there is more community spirit/involvement in urban centers than in the suburbs or rural areas.
This is so true! From a man’s perspective I feel more understood with older women than when I’m dating my age or younger women. Well, something about me has always disliked dating very much younger women than me. Because I feel life has exposed me to a lot of burdens that could make my way of life so complicated for them to follow. Back to the women my age or close aged, I see them more often than not trying to fix my life and perspective before even trying to understand my viewpoint. By the way, it’s not like my life is going bad - I’m actually doing absolutely okay for my career and personal life for my age. But then with older women, I simply mostly see admiration and someone seriously interested to understand how I’ve been getting on so well and what pushes me to do what I do (my drive in life). At the end, it’s all about understanding, connection, mutual respect, and less arguments/rough edges.
“If you are going to have an age gap, a slightly younger man/older woman combo is proven to work best. Women who are 7–10 years older than their male partners score significantly higher on sexual satisfaction, arousal and orgasm frequency than younger women dating older men. Women with much younger partners were ‘the most satisfied and committed’ of all female age-gap groups. Wives are happiest when married to younger husbands, while wives with older husbands report lower satisfaction.”
Yes, but none of these figures indicate whether this mode of pairing works best. Maybe women who are inclined to date younger men tend to be happier? Maybe these relationships are shorter? Maybe they’re not as good for producing and raising children? Romantic relationships don’t exist for personal fulfillment. Only our society has ever believed that, and our society is the barrenest, loneliest, most neurotic society that has ever existed.
you are overthinking this
I love a MILF as much as the next guy but there are good reasons to not make this the norm.
There is no making nothing the norm, we should just destigmatise it. It's fine. What's your issue with millennial women dating Gen Z men?
"Women who are 7–10 years older than their male partners score significantly higher on sexual satisfaction, arousal and orgasm frequency than younger women dating older men."
--- Interesting, if also counter-intuitive. We used to hear that men who were age gap older (10 or more years) to women made better lovers. Young women said that guys their own age or younger were "selfish in bed" whereas older gentleman were more giving and concerned with her pleasure.
"Women with much younger partners were “the most satisfied and committed” of all female age-gap groups. Wives are happiest when married to younger husbands, while wives with older husbands report lower satisfaction."
--- That makes sense. Young people have young vibes and makes the atmosphere lighter, more carefree and joyful.
To be fair, obviously this is different person to person, but some people may prefer the ‘culture’ of one generation over another. I find the sensitivity of some zoomers endearing.
Great piece Stella, very thought provoking once again and a nice break from politics.
There are no rules, enjoy a variety of those you feel attracted to whatever the age, within reason, and one day one of those will be a keeper. You only look like you’re 25 so you can easily get away with looking good with a younger bloke. Sexually, a younger man works better in a marriage as sexual energy will be better matched.
In re #8: I don’t think this is true at all. Your average mid-twenties guy is less emotionally mature than your average 35-45 yo guy. And crying? I mean, if a guy opens up about being molested as a kid or sees a family member die in front of them, then yes he can cry and no one will begrudge him that. But if he’s crying because someone was mean to him at work (or something similar) it might be refreshing/unique at first, but if it continues you will probably find it pathetic and it will definitely not be *hot*.
Fuck yeaa!! I am never going to feel bad about having a crush on a 24 year old as a 28 year old (anymore). Thanks Stella, you’re a fucking star!
28 and 24 are the same age, very much in the same generation/age range. Age gap relationships start at around 12 years difference. Why on earth would you "feel bad" about dating someone your own age?
"Don’t date people you want to become. Until a couple of years ago, I would often date those I wanted to be like. I wanted them, but more than that, I wanted to be them. I started realising that if I continued this way, I would get married to someone I admired and live my whole life in their shadow, breeding resentment for my unfulfilled potential."
You have the brain of a man. Likely higher testosterone than most women. Your advice isn't going to fit most women with normal jawlines.
She has a typical Greek jawline. See Jennifer Aniston. Don't know that it would indicate higher T levels in her ethnicity.
I guess I am out of luck and out to pasture. 50 and feel like it's all behind me. There really is no hope left in my world.
It's time to embrace your role as the "wise elder of the community" and take up mentoring/uncle duties. It's a beautiful thing.